maineflyer

Please don't take this as criticism of your post but I don't think there is a shred of actual evidence that TBB has been banned by anyone other than the chairman of Rangers. I see no evidence that UEFA banned it and I can't recall the police of PF's office ever announce any ban. Sure, there has been a great deal of talk about a ban and some have even been encouraged to promote the notion that a ban exists. However, I think if you look for hard evidence of a ban you will find none. What we did have was a certain Mr Dingwall going to extraordinary lengths to persuade members on FF that the song was banned, the tune was banned and the thought police were alert and ready if anyone even daydreamed the song. I believe there have been some unforgivable lies perpetrated over this matter - all of which emerged mysteriously one of those smoke-filled jaffa cake session with said chairman of Rangers. Unpicking the inferences and half-truths from this isn't easy because we were all subjected to one of Murray's full-on spinfests. But perhaps you know more. If so, I'd like to hear it. I've had this debate on several other forums and nothing concrete has ever come to light.

If even our so-called thinking fans are prepared to indulge in such blatant self-deception as you then there really is no hope for the Rangers or our long heritage. If you are capable of defending nonsense with such apparent commitment and inventing laws and morality as you go then what do we do with the truth? Is there even any room for it in your new reality? I'm so depressed at the ease with which you seem to swallow propaganda and regurgitate it as fact. Our enemies pose no threat compared to our friends.

The issue is hardly one of choral quality, any more than it matters whether we might claim to be choristers of particular ability. What does matter to all of us is the imposition of contrived censorship for the benefit of an increasingly bitter and manipulative celtic community - and the conivance of authorities who are in danger of bringing the ridiculous into the public life of this country.

Surely not. That would be a truly dreadful decision, even for Smith.

The depth of offence that can be distilled out of terracing banter these days is staggering. One can only assume that the good Mr Peat has not reached this conclusion on his own. In fact I would all but guarantee it. The song being sung is no more or less offensive in itself than any number of songs or chants heard at football grounds up and down the length of the country. It is only attracting this amount of attention for two reasonsââ?¬Â¦ 1. It is being directed at parasitic subculture who are so insecure and bitter that they cannot bear any criticism, howsoever it comes about; and 2. It is being sung by Rangers fans and we all know that Rangers fans have needed to be put in their place for a very long time. And how ironic to see members of this forum rushing to prop up the victimhood industry by wrapping their arms around a poor 17 year old who, let's face it, made his bed and hardly suffered irreparable damage and untold suffering. Can you see the blood pooling around his feet in the post-match dressing room - no, neither can I. Was he the first football player to be targeted by opposing fans? Will he be the last? So what is the fuss really about ââ?¬â?? oh yes, it is about Oirland. Not our near and much appreciated neighbours across the Irish Sea but the twisted concoction in that exists only in the minds of those who cluster around the diocese and a certain Glasgow football club. The famineââ?¬â?¢s over, why donââ?¬â?¢t you go home. Can you really tell me that those arenââ?¬â?¢t the most apt and well directed sentiments you have ever heard? If certain Rangers fans spent less time apologising and cow-towing to the corrupt and one-sided censorship that permeates almost every tranche of our society, perhaps those of us who still have a spine would feel less embarrassed by our endless decline. Forget the song. There is nothing intrinsically wrong or offensive about the song. This circus has nothing to do with the song and everything to do with the fact that someone is daring to sing it. Iââ?¬â?¢ve never actually sung this song myself but Iââ?¬â?¢ll be damned if I should be denied the right to do so by people in the shadows who are motivated by nothing other than their own deeply sectarian interests. People like Peat, or Murray for that matter, are being played like a piano.

And I certainly didn't intend to infer you were attacking Weir - sorry - I actually agree entirely with your main point but it's worth remembering that the Weir Bougherra partnership is actually still in its infancy.

When you think what Davie Weir has done since arriving at Rangers and compare it with the seemingly endless line of chancers we have been in the habit of signing, I think we should stand as a man and applaud the guy. He may be getting on and he may not have great pace but he certainly has done a job for Rangers. What more can we ever ask of a player? We do need to be lining up his replacement but Davie Weir is one of the few signings in recent years that even I would never argue with.

While fully justified and constructive in itself, I can't help reflecting that this debate lends unwarranted credence to the recent girning nonsense from Smith and Murray. That we are concerned about Rangers taking legal action against its own fans paints such a picture that we should be breaking down the doors of Ibrox in utter disgust. If Murray's contempt for the ordinary fan has reached such pass as this then he might as well just declare open warfare upon us. If Smith spent more of his energies trying to develop some of the undubted young talent we have at the club instead of undermining it in public statements that they aren't good enough then he just might be doing the job he's paid so handsomely for. And if Murray made some effort to unite the club rather than actively divide it, we just might believe we had a chairman and owner who gave a damn. As it is, they have conspired to bring this shaky house of cards that much closer to collapse.

There's no doubt at all in my opinion that you're right about the prodding - but that's no excuse for putting his name to that article. If he accepted the prod then he is as bad as the two clowns you mention and is also now completely compromised. What puzzles me is where these people think they're going with this silly campaign? What gain do they see from it? Do they really think they can eliminate bigotry by attacking those who harbour no bigotted intentions? Do they even have sincere opinions about this subject or is this just more claptrap from people who are really only concerned about their own image? As for age being some sort of excuse - give me bloody strength!

I'm indebted to you for a remarkably incisive post that says eveything I wanted to say - but much better. There is even a case to be made that Walter is actually indulging in precisely the sort of arms length criticism that he now appears to find fault with.

We all want rid of blatant sectarianism and no one has done more to reduce this than the fans themselves, certainly not Murray or Smith. Why they seem intent on condemning everyone they cannot control is beyond me. The gulf between club and supporters is huge and getting wider every day. In the main, Murray has to bear responsibility for this and his lack of leadership continues to divide us.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2461710.0.Rangers_manager_hits_out_at_web_comments.php What is it with people who need to attack their own? And when exactly did he stop being one of us, he certainly used to be exactly what he is now (being) compelled to condemn. Don't you just hate people who choose to turn their back on their friends?

Ha ha, missed that - now you've got me worried!

You have to get these emotions under control Gribz. None of us knew Eddie Thomson personally so how is it that we suddenly generate all these sentimental thoughts about the guy. Is it being a "robot" to show a little honesty? Does it make us more "human" to extract the last ounce of false sentimentality over the death of someone of whom we really know nothing at all and to whom we have zero connection. Let's just try to get real for a change.

That says it for me. International football has become a pointless farce.

Eddie Thomson will be a great loss to his family and close friends. Like almost everyone else in this world, that's it. Wishing his team had beaten Rangers to lift the CIS cup last season is close to laughable. Perhaps we could offer celtic the points next time we play them to make up for their loss of Tommy Burns. Try drying your tears and pulling yourself together, big boys don't go in for this puffball pysh.

Get a grip man, you appear to be losing it here. Murray is a thoroughly bad egg in every respect and you will never find yourself lauding me. The reason most fans concur with me is that I'm right.

Lafferty can emulate whoever he wants but if Smith either won't play him or continues to pretend he's a left winger when he does get on the park then the it is all a waste of time. Even Mark Hately would have struggled to impress from the subs bench.

This is a complete nonsense and is typical of the sentimentalised world we now live in. Playing the game would indicate no disrespect whatsoever and cancelling it is nothing other than misguided moral claptrap - just more PC bollox from weak-kneed administrators desparate to show their emotional credentials. Is showing sensitivity at every opportunity really so important? Have we really lost our ability to show respect without tears streaming down our faces? Has society finally turned into one big soap opera? Get on with the game ffs.

We are clearly of the same mind in this. I think it's fair to say the Rangers support has changed beyond all measure and generally has an open mind to all. Who would have believed an Italian catholic would have captained Rangers and been idolised by so many at Ibrox? We accept all colours, races, religions - hell we even accepted Davie Dodds! Look how readily the fans gave up TBB when it was said that singing this song would damage the club. Rangers fans are generally reasonable and adaptable - and above all they genuinely love the club. It is hugely disappointing to see a new established wisdom emerging that we should see ourselves in a more negative light than we deserve. Where has this come from and why is our chairman part of it? What we don't accept is grossly biased and unfair treatment of ourselves or our club - and it is this bias, coupled with utter disbelief at the lack of response from the chairman, that is ratchetting up the tensions and leading some to take a more entrenched stance that even they might feel entirely comfortable with.

I wouldn't advocate foreign ownership of Rangers, from whatever quarter it came. However, I should say I've done business with people in the Middle East for many years and, for the most part, have found them to be at least as honest and trustworthy as anyone, including the British. As for Murray, I wish I had your faith in the man but I don't.

You're right, not everything he's done has been bad ... and of course he can reasonably claim to be a very successful businessman. However, my only interest in David Murray is insomuch as he affects Rangers today. To an extent, it's the very fact that he can so easily claim such successes in his other business interests that almost demands that his oversight of our recent recline is highlighted to what often comes across as an unquestioning support. That he may be judged as having once been good for Rangers cannot cloud the issue as it stands today. If I'm wrong then I apologise but at the time we won NIAR the club's finances were relatively healthy as I recall. It has been the time since the Advocaat experiment started to unwind that Murray has lost the plot and for which his stewardship entirely deserves to be questioned - if only he would occasionally answer some of those questions! I'm really not the least interested in Murray as a person but his actions (or lack of them) as chairman these last few years have been negligent and unacceptable. I believe his outbursts at last weeks AGM showed a great deal about his relationship with this club. I realise these views run contrary to those of many members of this forum but they are the views I hold as honestly as I know how.

I actually agree with you completely about the wined up pricks - and feeding the pigeons. However, I also resent the grossly unfair and utterly contrived accusation that everything in our traditions is sectarian. It is not and it was against this accusation that Murray was asked to defend us when he erupted with the sectarian bile statement. Whish is why I don't think he or anyone else should be encouraged to misrepresent the real situation.

Did you, I really don't remember. Thanks for pointing that out.

There's clearly nothing to worry about, since Murray has done an Alistair Darling and "guaranteed" the future of Rangers. As sole arbitrator, he has undertaken to sell only to someone who will be good for Rangers. Mind you, after twenty years, I don't think he's yet figured out for himself what that actually means.