Danny

To counter this, what about Naismith and Broadfoot. Both have come back from long term injuries and looked decent. Thomson just looks a shadow of his former rather average self.

Borux was probably world class at the 2006 WC, and has produced many cracking saves such as the one V Hibs recently. He's messed up in his head, yes, but he's second only to McGregor in this country. Cerny being third.

I still think he's one of their best players. He offers a threat going forward and harries opposition doggedly. It's much more of a pain playing against him than N'Guemo or Crosas. It's great though that Mowbray's legendary stubborness seems to be taking Celtic apart at the seams.

No wonder, Bayern and Atletico are interested in him too.

I think Hamilton are our new bogie team. Now that we've sorted out United, and ICT no longer play in the SPL, Hamilton seem to be the team we struggle against.

We struggle badly without Miller. He's a huge miss. When he's in the side his off the ball movement gives all sorts of problems and while sometimes his finishing is a little off, he's been on goalscoring form recently. As for Novo, he was pathetic last night - extremely wasteful, ponderous, and nigh on profligate. But put him wide left and we get the best out of him. His best position is not as a striker.

Miller was clear MOTM for me.

The one curious think is this link's been going for a while and yet he was the pundit last night on Sky?

Agreed. But it was Bougherra who was being hyped up (and hyping up himself) as being born for the CL and ready to thrive in it. And of course the rest of the squad are out of their depth in Europe, you only have to look at our quite appalling results and performances in it. I don't deny that.

Bougherra was lousy against Stuttgart - his goal doesn't change the fact we were like a sieve at the back.

I should have added the disclaimer that it is a matter of opinion (but you can't seriously rate Mendes...)

A slightly different thread to our usuals. This thread asks the simple question: which players have changed your mind about them, and who were you right about all along? I'll start so folk have a clue what I mean. I was right: Pedro Mendes. Luxury player who flattered to deceive and deceived many fans in the process. Madjid Bougherra. Good SPL player with an attitude problem, but out of his depth at European level. Kenny Miller. Didn't want us to sign him but he won me over with some real impact displays and while he's been inconsistent at times, he has proven me right to rate him as one of our best players. McGregor. Far too many wanted Alexander in goal during Boozegate based on some moralistic view of player conduct rather than pure raw ability. Our goalie is now one of our most valuable assets. Kevin Thomson. I never bought into the hype about him while many viewed him as a messiah. Nowadays he's struggling to even achieve the average level I didn't use to rate in the first place! I was wrong: Kris Boyd. While his poor record against Celtic continues on, he's well and truly dispelled the 'can't do it against a top 6 team' myth this season especially. He's proven me wrong that he has no ability, and as well as scoring he's shown he can pass, run, hold up, header and track back. Novo. Never saw him as more than a sub impact player, one who lacked the basics. His recent run has shown me up, for he's caused absolute hell down the left wing and scored the critical goal against Hamilton. Form of his life and is more than I thought he was. Broadfoot. While no Dani Alves, and was torn apart by McNeedy, he's proven himself to be quite a capable RB. Ordinary, workmanlike but with a little more ability than I used to give him credit for, Broadfoot has a firm grasp of his first team slot and is well worth a new contract. Whittaker. Wrong but in the wrong way. I used to rate him high as the sky, but his defensive frailties and psychological weaknesses have bubbled dramatically this season. Often looking like a rabbit in headlights, his sparkling form of the Uefa run is a distant memory and he now seems like a trainwreck of a player. Any of your own?

Even today I still look at posts like this which see him for what he really is and think back to how highly he was praised last season and it amazes me the difference.

This is the false reputation Mendes has, as a sitting creative midfielder like Ferguson who can burst forward and pick out passes. I don't know where he got this from, even I was guilty of attributing it to him. He's nothing like Ferguson - and when he tries to be he invariably gets yet another Hollywood pass dreadfully wrong. L'Equipe also told us Bordeaux had signed Bougherra. I'll take them with a pinch of salt for now

Mendes was the most overated player in our recent history. He's had a surprisingly average career when you look at his background, and was, as you say, lapped up by many as something he clearly wasn't. I think it was easy for the lazy to hype him up because: He is Portuguese. He's called Pedro Mendes He's played for Porto He's played for Spurs 1: He has so few caps for his country his nationality is almost irrelevant. 2: He played a fair few domestic games for Porto, which was probably his best season - but was not used in the CL much until the final, where they needed a DM to snuff out Monaco's creativity - and that's another thing, he was never a creative midfielder... 3: The Spurs situation was that he played a reasonable helping of games there in his first season, and almost none in the second. He's mostly remembered for the goal that wasn't V Roy Carroll. It irritated me so much last season to see him warmly praised all the time, when clearly, in my eyes, he was doing so little to deserve such praise. He can leave with my thorough blessing.

You're the one making the demand that we DO do something. I'm not. I'm perfectly happy to just constructively criticise, but I'm not demanding anyone else with criticism makes a practical solution. That's been the bee in your bonnet this whole thread, not mine or anyone else's. Not true, you've clearly implied that criticism without action is nigh on irreprehensible. You're the one banging on with your bleeding heart at everyone who gives criticism, constructive or otherwise, to formulate actions based on them. I've already given my answer in my first post. It wasn't even criticism, it was my opinion of supporters' groups. I hope that satisfies your insatiable desire for answers.

As an aside, if he receives a 5m offer for Adam, that will be Adam's value. The value of a commodity is what someone is willing to pay for it. Whether we like it or not, Joleon Lescott is worth 22M quid. It isn't really true value, it's acquisition value. It's not 'that gold bar is worth 1000 pounds' because if no one pays 1000 pounds for it it's not worth anything. Do I make any sense to anyone other than myself

Only if it was critical. If criticism is made of criticism for criticism's sake, then that's critically unfair.

The reason Adam's doing better down there is it's a higher standard of football, so he's had to raise his game. He always had talent, but seemed to lack the basics - looks like he's sorted that one out. If he came back here he'd go into decline again. Still can't forget his thuggery up here though.

He's a wee turncoat rat but I'm not wholly sure why you hate him as a person outwith football.

Miller was actually a half decent player, very composed on the ball. Moving to United was the wrong move for him though.

Didn't use to be. Really has gone backwards over the past 8 months.

You're just a blowhard. You're preaching at people to 'do something about it' but wouldn't do it yourself about anything you criticise yourself. Stop the self righteous sanctimony and give respect to those who offer criticism.

So, seeing as you want pro-active responses, how about we see how you PERSONALLY are going to deal with us skeptics of RST-type organisations? You want action, so then, so do I! I want to see how you are going to deal with us being critical, in the real world, and not just replying to our posts. What are you going to do, in the real world, about us EB? Maine was spot on - the easiest and oldest trick in the book to deal with critics is demanding they fix the things they are critical of. See, even I did it above as a homage to you. It's a cop out and suggests criticism is feeble.

So what you're saying is if anyone has criticism of anything in life, they are obliged to personally change it?