Danny

You're going to tell me he's been completely rubbish for us aren't you.

So basically Walter is admitting he brought Rothen in purely for squad depth, and when our players became fit again (you know, like Mendes, Edu...) he had no use for Jerome (see the contradiction). I think this whole episode shows Rothen was a panic signing, a 'name' in light of the club bringing no one else in. It didn't really matter how he played, I don't think Walter was interested in using him beyond disposable selection for the first couple of months of the season. Walter's team is Walter's team, and as suggested here, I suspect the decision to sign this guy wasn't Walter's. He would rather play the Flecks, Laffertys etc out of position than this guy, despite it being his natural slot.

And yet for a half season he was top scorer...

How about reversing the question? Why do some players appear to improve at Ibrox? Bougherra has turned from a promising CB into, supposedly, a sought after defender looking for a big move. Kris Boyd went from a decent SPL striker and has turned into a major asset. Allan McGregor went from a normal goalie understudy to the best in the country. Miller went from underwhelming Celtic, Derby and Wolves striker into the form of his life at Ibrox. Or flipping the question on its head...why do some players appear to fail away from Ibrox? Lovenkrands gets stick for not doing that much since Ibrox, ditto Buffel, Claudio Reyna found the only way was down after us, Kyrgiakos did ok at Frankfurt but finds himself as squad numbers at Liverpool, Boumsong had a mare at Newcastle then Juventus. I think the word circumstances sums it all up really. Some succeed here, some fail, some succeed away, some fail away. I don't know if there's any real blame for either scenario.

You're aware that for the brief period he was played through the middle, in front of Buffel, as a striker in the SPL, Peter Lovenkrands became the league's top scorer? He topped it with around 14 goals. Then Eck mystifyingly put him back to left wing. He didn't do that well in Germany as he played as a winger there too...

Oh God, you're part of the Lovenkrands lynchmob too!? Jesus wept, I think I'd be pissing in the wind debating this subject with ye.

And I am doing neither. I am saying, and this is the way it looks, that he is being solitarily blamed for that defeat. That effectively it was 'his fault' - I don't deny he had a stinker that night, but the rest of the team did too. My point is that it looks like scapegoating to say, almost, that we lost because he had a stinker, rather than we lost and he had a stinker. He and 10 others.

Well yes, that's why we're in this mess. I think we have a better pool of players than many give us credit for, but the calibre of manager the team attracts is not exactly illustrious.

You just said it's fair to blame a player more than others. Isn't that what the very definition of scapegoating is?

I prefer to be #1 A common misconception. I saw him bulldozer his way past Balde at Ibrox, I saw him smashed to the turf then fight his way back to score against Motherwell despite the foul, and I remember him being slammed into ad hoardings at Falkirk during a dreadful 0-0 under PLG - he just got up and got on with it. I'll never really understand why many viewed him as some kind of chicken when he was anything but.

Then we must agree to disagree. I felt the entire team was simply dreadful and scapegoating any of them is another futile way of trying to explain why we lost.

I think there are worse men they could have got, if they get him, but in the way that Leicester was maybe too eary for him, hence he flopped, I fear Scotland may be too early for him as well. Managing the national side is extremely hard, managing any national team is, and even Euro 96 winner Berti Vogts couldn't handle Scotland. Admittedly Levein is more familiar with Scottish players, and shouldn't flop as badly as the German did, but Burley was equally familiar and crashed and burned. Despite excelling in the past with Hearts and Ipswich. I do feel his recent enthusiasm for the role is borne from the humbling his Utd took from us. That defeat may have made him feel his side would never get any better than it currently is, and would never realistically challenge for the SPL, hence his work was done there.

I very much liked Buffel and felt he was given a raw deal by fans and club alike.

1: Rothen denies he had swine flu. 2: The whole team was appalling against Unirea - is it fair to blame one player more than another?

Seems Rothen isn't flavour of the month around here. Personally I think he's been extremely unfairly and harshly dealt with - he did seem to get the blame for our loss to Unirea, which is called scapegoating and unwarranted. Since that match he's simply been frozen out and has the dignity not to slag off our club in any way - he blames bad luck and nothing else. Yet almost everyone here character assassinates him? I sense a bit of the Buffels about him - he's just a player that Walter doesn't fancy, who doesn't fit in - no matter how good or otherwise he may be. Have we all forgotten how good Rothen was in Germany?

I'd rather have McCulloch than either Mendes or Thomson. Davis needs to work harder to justify selection, and Edu's sheer class. Our best midfielder along with Rothen.

My ratings... Alexander: 7 A good stop or 2 and assured enough. Broadfoot: 8 Highest rating I've ever given him. Might lack pace, but looks leaner, classier, and like a more rounded RB than he was pre-injury. And as one of his biggest detractors, this is high praise indeed. Weir: 7 Organised the back well enough and even showed skill at times. Bougherra: 6 Another egotistical display by a player who thinks he's better than he is. Once again did the old 'shepard it out' only to once again mess up and cost us a corner. Papac: 6 Continues to be exactly the same week after week. Novo: 9 Tormented the Utd back line, and his setup for Miller's goal had class written all over it. Beasley: 8 10 in the first half (frankly he was awesome), but 6 in the second as he faded out of the game as an attacker. Davis: 7 Too quiet but better than he has been. McCulloch: 8 Orchestrated the middle better than anyone else has this season. Which is a bit of a damning indictment of Thomson, Davis and Mendes as much as it is high praise of him. Seems to have to do his partner's work. Boyd: 9 Excellent work and harrassed the Utd defence constantly. Goes to show that even without goals, he is capable of being an excellent striker. Miller: 8 Needed his goals badly, and took both with clinical applomb. Had a very quiet period since that infamous 'miss-gate' V Holland, but hopefully he's back now.

tbh I agree with this to an extent, I think he was one of our weaker men tonight, along with Bougherra and Papac.

Where was the trap? What was the wording of the question? Future captain? I'm one of those who never bought into the hype about his ability, never mind his future likelihood of being captain, but even I didn't foresee him being this awful on the pitch on his return.

Wilson, Weir - sorted. Sooner Bougherra clears off the better.

I was once Whittaker's biggest fan, wanting Broadfoot out in favour of him. But I have to say it seems Whittaker's peak was the run to Manchester, and he's been in decline since it. This season he's been one of our worst players, and I am flabbergasted to be pleased Broadfoot's playing there now.

I honestly thought Beasley was a shout - maybe not an emphatic one, but it's the best I've seen the 'knees' play in ages. I do have to point out though - you don't need to worry about Davis' poor form - it's the way he is till March. Does this every season - for 3 months at the start we think we've got the greatest player ever - then he goes into a shell till spring. Literally hibernating.

This Miller or Bougherra you're on about

I honestly can't wait to get rid of Bougherra, on every level. He's been a complete pain since he arrived, and now we know Wilson's, frankly, a better defender, 'Magic' would be no loss at all. I have no doubt Bougherra will end up in the EPL, but only for a Hull or Wolves type team. I'll also laugh at his inability to defend against players of the quality of even a mid-table EPL outfit, never mind the top ones. I mean for God's sake he looked miserably out of his depth against PSG and VFB (and don't pretend his goal excuses his otherwise average display) - how the hell is he going to cope against the top teams? Oh yeah, like he did against Sevilla...

Wilson's class, with or without Weir tbh. I accept I've been a touch harsh on him, as it's not his fault he's been so mediocre - he simply shouldn't be there now. I wouldn't deny Walter's failures. As you'll remember a thread I started a long time ago - 'Walter's Lost it'. It was a tad premature, but I do believe it was prophetic and it's been getting truer and truer in subtle measures.