Sectarian Songs - Focus Group

[Bluedell 5,329]

Since the Act became law on 1 March 2012.

 

Why not just tell me what it's going to show?

[amms 0]

Okay. In the 12 months to March 2013 a grand total of 268 people were charged under the Offensive behaviour At Football act, of those 82% got to court so something like 220 people.

Now even if all of them were Rangers supporters (and they weren't, we know this) and we look only at home matches (and some were away games but they are harder to count) and lets say Rangers average attendance was 45,000 in that period with an average of say 20 home matches. That's a total of 900,000 people attending Ibrox during that period, the vast majority of who are Rangers supporters. 268 people out of 900,000 is something like 0.002% (someone who can count can figure it out). It's tiny, a minuscule number of people.

 

So this targeting, this bias, this focus that's apparently being shown to us is simply not apparent in the actual numbers. If we are coming in for special treatment, if the efforts of the establishment are being brought down on us why aren't more of us being arrested? You are far more likely to be charged with a religiously aggravated crime in the street or in your home than you are at a football match.

 

The problem here is perception and increasingly our perception isn't based in reality.

 

So when Focus tell us (and I've heard many calls for someone to tell us what's acceptable) that songs mentioning or clearly about the UVF and their associated organisations aren't acceptable why is this difficult to accept? We're clearly not being discriminated against in anything like a tangible way.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Okay. In the 12 months to March 2013 a grand total of 268 people were charged under the Offensive behaviour At Football act, of those 82% got to court so something like 220 people.

Now even if all of them were Rangers supporters (and they weren't, we know this) and we look only at home matches (and some were away games but they are harder to count) and lets say Rangers average attendance was 45,000 in that period with an average of say 20 home matches. That's a total of 900,000 people attending Ibrox during that period, the vast majority of who are Rangers supporters. 268 people out of 900,000 is something like 0.002% (someone who can count can figure it out). It's tiny, a minuscule number of people.

 

So this targeting, this bias, this focus that's apparently being shown to us is simply not apparent in the actual numbers. If we are coming in for special treatment, if the efforts of the establishment are being brought down on us why aren't more of us being arrested? You are far more likely to be charged with a religiously aggravated crime in the street or in your home than you are at a football match.

 

The problem here is perception and increasingly our perception isn't based in reality.

 

So when Focus tell us (and I've heard many calls for someone to tell us what's acceptable) that songs mentioning or clearly about the UVF and their associated organisations aren't acceptable why is this difficult to accept? We're clearly not being discriminated against in anything like a tangible way.

 

Actually it's about 0.029%, your a decimal point out but it's still a tiny percentage and that is supposing that every last one of those charged is a Rangers fan, which is definitely not true.

 

However, I would accept, before BD or anyone else points it out, that the real questions here are what percentage of those charged are Rangers fans and what offences were they charged with. You would then need to look at the numbers in relation to the number of fans supporting each club. I have an academic friend how might be interested in doing the study.

 

That is why I have suggested a Freedom of Information request to settle the issue.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Why not just tell me what it's going to show?

 

Because the information I had from Focus concerned the early operation of the Act when they gave numerous instances of fans of other Clubs being arrested. I am no longer in a position to get this information, however if you are correct that an increasing number of non-Rangers fans have been targeted then I would expect the stats to show that.

[chilledbear 16]

What that shows is how Rangers Fans have cleaned up their song sheet.

 

Could this also not mean as we as a Support have stopped certain songs and add-ons, they have decided to go after more.

 

Some say no matter what we do, they will never be satisfied.

[Bluedell 5,329]

AMMS and BH, I'm not sure what points you are trying to make. Are you trying to argue that Rangers fans have not been dealt with more harshly than other fans over the past 5-10 years or just that we haven't been since March of last year?

[BrahimHemdani 1]

AMMS and BH, I'm not sure what points you are trying to make. Are you trying to argue that Rangers fans have not been dealt with more harshly than other fans over the past 5-10 years or just that we haven't been since March of last year?

 

In my case I am referring to offences under the OBA.

[Super_Ally 0]

As far as I can see all BH and amms stats do is further prove what a sham the sectarian issue is. If just 0.029% of fans are engaging in this behaviour why is so much time, money, expense, politicians time, police time and media inches and minutes wasted on this sham.

 

Those figures don't show that there isn't a greater focus on rangers fans. They just show the authorities are struggling to justify their bs agenda with charges and convictions.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

As far as I can see all BH and amms stats do is further prove what a sham the sectarian issue is. If just 0.029% of fans are engaging in this behaviour why is so much time, money, expense, politicians time, police time and media inches and minutes wasted on this sham.

 

Those figures don't show that there isn't a greater focus on rangers fans. They just show the authorities are struggling to justify their bs agenda with charges and convictions.

 

That's comparing all those charged v Rangers attendance in the period. I suspect that if you took it against ALL fans attending ALL games then the percentage would be about 0.01%.

 

In this case I would agree that the law is an ass, and I am confident that if they didn't know it at the time the SG sure as hell know it now. However, the fact that the legislation was incredibly badly drafted doesn't mean that there isn't an issue, as some comments on this thread prove, I would suggest.

[der Berliner 3,245]

The problem here is perception and increasingly our perception isn't based in reality.

 

So when Focus tell us (and I've heard many calls for someone to tell us what's acceptable) that songs mentioning or clearly about the UVF and their associated organisations aren't acceptable why is this difficult to accept? We're clearly not being discriminated against in anything like a tangible way.

 

Maybe my perception carries me away a little when I hear 50odd thousand Yahoos singing "sad Orang bastard" at a foreign coach and ex-Rangers player (as they did with Walter and his predecessors), openly sing songs gloryfing terrorist in a country that lost thousands to these same terrorists et al. IMHO, the Rangers support cleaned its act starting from the Souness era onwards, essentially eradicated TBB et al after 2007 ... and saw how our own efforts where not followed by those from beyond the Clyde, but also endured even more and cynical vitriol. The Yahoos where left with an ivory tower and a feeling of being untouchable ... and while I sure can drop any sectarian add on or song in no-time, I for one want a level-handed approach by the authorities and I can't see this coming for the time being. It is not just the few chaps being lifted, the whole image of the club and its support gets tarred week in and week out, has been for years. For essentially nothing worth writing home about.