Sectarian Songs - Focus Group

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I would say BH that the inference of the term "Orange" is quite clear - it has been used regularly by the Celtic support and not against Dutch opposition I may add.

 

Furthermore there is nothing to stop Police officers at a football match arresting supporters for a Breach of the Peace - despite the new offensive behaviour Act being flavour of the day.

 

I am not arguing about the inference of the word "orange" in this context; I am just saying that a smart lawyer could mount a stiff defense.

 

Yes they could indeed make arrests for Breach of the Peace but one of the main reasons for the introduction of the OBA was that the police were increasingly unable to obtain convictions for Breach of the Peace (where as I understand it' date=' it is necessary to demonstrate that a person has been placed in a state of [i']fear and alarm[/i]) in the contect of football matches because the standard defence was that it was "normal" or "acceptable" behaviour at football matches to sing offensive songs about the opposition or its fans.

 

The whole point of the Act was to take away that defence; but by adding the "incite public disorder" clause it became more or less self defeating.

[pete 2,499]

I thought the police view was that when certain words are used in a derogatory way then it can be an offence. If you say Black Bastard then it is an offence. If you say would the black man like a cup of coffee then it is not an offence. If Black bastard is an offence then Orange bastard should be held in the same context.

[RANGERRAB 3,258]

The legislation and the formation of FoCUS came out of the so called "shame game" and was introduced because the SG were concerned about the damage it was doing to Scotland's worldwide reputation.

 

and how & where have FOCUS been operating ever since ? you tell me.

Salmond knows he'll get no votes from Rangers & its support. This is his revenge

[Frankie 8,150]

I don't disagree with you (I watched the Arsenal match so I'll take your word for it). I've heard Rangers supporters sing songs this season I thought were long gone. There is a lack of consistency, particularly with the media.

Did you make a report, if not would you?

 

Yes I highlighted the singing to various parties who are usually very keen to discuss such matters when it involves Rangers fans.

 

No reply.

[Bluedell 5,329]

The legislation and the formation of FoCUS came out of the so called "shame game" and was introduced because the SG were concerned about the damage it was doing to Scotland's worldwide reputation.

 

It would have been far easier to have told Lennon that his poison was not wanted in Scotland.

[blueflag 378]

and how & where have FOCUS been operating ever since ? you tell me.

Salmond knows he'll get no votes from Rangers & its support. This is his revenge

 

Depressing thing is rab, he will.

And you dont need to look fuether afield than this forum to find them .we even have a bloody ssp supporter on here. #mentalists

[amms 0]

The legislation introduced and the formation of FOCUS are both intended to target Rangers & its support. That is a fact in this vile, infested little country we live in. Remember that next time at the ballot box. It was both the SNP & the Lhabour party who are responsible for this.Don't vote for them.It's unfortunate we don't have a party like N.I's DUP here in Scotland whom we could identify with.Could they set up over here?

Last night's FdeB chants should have FOCUS attempting to identify the culprits but not a word so far. Are they investigating ? If not why not? Are they deaf or ,as I suspect, selective ?

You cannot have legislation which applies to one section of a community but not another. The end result is seen all too often around the world. Don't think it couldn't happen here. It could.

 

The DUP? Really? Creationism and persecution of gays is what politics in Scotland needs is it? The Catholic church already provides that Rab, maybe your more in tune with the Cardinals than you think...

[Chibmark 15]

I fail to see what anyone's political affiliations has to do with this issue.

 

The fact of the matter is that regardless who got into power at Holyrood, this idiotic legislation was being brought in. I know just as many cyber Celtic fans who are equally upset and angry at what they see as their tribe being targeted unfairly, just like their polar opposites in the Rangers support.

 

Rangers fans should be focussing on ousting the Board before things get worse, not wasting time and resources in figuring out what silly and 'offensive/inappropriate' songs they can sing.

 

IMHO.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

That is a fact in this vile, infested little country we live in.

www.ba.com

[Bluedell 5,329]

Much as we and FdB and perhaps Dutch people in general might find that offensive (and it kept breaking up when I tried to play it, so I'll assume that was what was sung) in order to bring a charge under the OBA, you would need to be able to prove:

 

1. 
   
2. That by using the word "orange" you were referring to a specific group of people, presumably Dutch people; and I don't think you would need to be much of a lawyer to contest that;
   
3. 
   
4. OR perhaps Protestant people, even more difficult I would suggest;
   
5. 
   
6. OR was behaviour that the mythical "reasonable person" would be likely to consider offensive;
   
7. 
   
8. AND (and here's the rub) (i) is likely to incite public disorder, or (ii) would be likely to incite public disorder; BUT for the fact that—measures are in place to prevent public disorder i.e. the Police are there to prevent it (is not a defence). So you would then need to show that the Ajax fans or any neutrals in the crowd were likely to riot. I'm not sure how you would prove that.
   

 

Personally I think it's bang out of order; but I also think that the chances of obtaining a conviction under the OBA are next to zilch, which is probably why no one was arrested for it.

 

You could use the same argument against virtually every song that's sung by our support as well. If the argument that you are using worked then Rangers fans would be able to sing TBB with impunity at most games (UEFA not withstanding).

 

I don't really want to get into the effectiveness of the OBA but I can't believe that the police can't arrest people for making sectarian chants at games and not make it stick, under some sort of legislation.