Mountain Bear 0 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Davy Irons included? Actually Davy did have his moments. Might be a close call. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,239 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh you can - its called evidence , evidence as to why people have arrived at the conclusions they have.. Selective evidence, as I pointed out. Interestingly enough, a list of these "desasters" are whipped up and used as evidence by those who bash aside the argument that we went throughout our league season unbeaten - another "selective truth", of course. There are reasons for failures in every singel match, sometimes they are the same, sometimes they are not. If people solely want to tarr it with the McCoist brush, they ignoring what actually happened on that day. I don't know whether you remember our 1-0 home defeat to ICT, when we conceeding a 93rd min. penalty that Ian Black converted ... with ICT's only shot on the game. By your assumption, one might call us abyssmal too. Nearly (sic!) every game is won or lost for a variety of reasons and playing "bad football" might very well be one of them. Playing good football without scoring goals is another. The pendulum swings both ways, for some it doesn't though. No-one is happy about cup exits and defeats to inferior teams on any other day. Pretending that it simply shall not happen is stretching it though. Likewise is blaming it all on the coach. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildy 0 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 There are different degrees of fan, from the casual to the diehard, and we all prioritise different things while sharing the same allegiance. The boardroom debacle that is damaging our club has led to thousands of fans opting out of buying season tickets, but I really do wonder - how many of the stay-aways are actually sick of the unimaginative football, the coaching staff and the sight of players who fall well short of the standard we should be aspiring to? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Selective evidence, as I pointed out. Interestingly enough, a list of these "desasters" are whipped up and used as evidence by those who bash aside the argument that we went throughout our league season unbeaten - another "selective truth", of course. There are reasons for failures in every singel match, sometimes they are the same, sometimes they are not. If people solely want to tarr it with the McCoist brush, they ignoring what actually happened on that day. I don't know whether you remember our 1-0 home defeat to ICT, when we conceeding a 93rd min. penalty that Ian Black converted ... with ICT's only shot on the game. By your assumption, one might call us abyssmal too. Nearly (sic!) every game is won or lost for a variety of reasons and playing "bad football" might very well be one of them. Playing good football without scoring goals is another. The pendulum swings both ways, for some it doesn't though. No-one is happy about cup exits and defeats to inferior teams on any other day. Pretending that it simply shall not happen is stretching it though. Likewise is blaming it all on the coach. Have another read. Is this detailed enough for you? • Surrendered a colossal 15 point lead to Celtic in the SPL (they had 2 games in hand granted), overturned in just 7 weeks (5th Nov - 24th Dec 2011). By 8th Feb 2012 Celtic were 10 points ahead - a total swing of 25 points in just 12 weeks or so. • Knocked out of the League Cup, beaten 3-2 by 1st Division outfit, Falkirk. • Knocked out of the Scottish Cup, beaten 2-0 by Dundee Utd. • Knocked out of the Champions League by Swedish minnows, Malmo. • Knocked out of the Europa League by Slovenian minnows, Maribor. • Gubbed 1-0 by Kilmarnock in our first game after going into Administration. Over the following 3 weeks we were also beaten 2-1 by Hearts and 2-1 by Dundee Utd. • Just managed to narrowly scrape a 2-1 win against part-time minnows, Brechin City in the Ramsdens Pawnbrokers Cup at Glebe Park - needing a last gasp, extra time goal to do so. • Just managed to scrape a 2-2 draw with part-time minnows, Peterhead at Balmoor - needing a last gasp, last minute goal to do so. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with part-time minnows, Berwick Rangers at Shielfield Park. • Just managed to scrape a 1-0 win against part-time minnows, Forres Mechanics at Mosset Park - after Forres were reduced to ten men. • Just managed to scrape a 0-0 draw with part-time minnows, Annan Athletic at Galabank. Despite being 5 games into the season, and playing in the basement rungs of Scottish football with SPL players we were still without an away win, sitting fourth in the table. • Horsed out of the Ramsdens Pawnbrokers Cup by Queen Of The South 4-3 on penalties after failing to beat them over 120 minutes of turgid clogging. • Beaten 1-0 by a Stirling Albion side, nestled snugly at the base of Scottish football's fourth tier, and who had just lost their previous five games on the trot. • Finally managed an away win in the fourth tier by scraping a narrow win against 10-man Clyde at Broadwood. • Horsed out of the League Cup by Inverness Caley Thistle who trounced us 3-0 at Ibrox. The scoreline was kept to 3-0 only by an outstanding performance from Neil Alexander, without whom it could easily have been 5 or 6. • Just managed to scrape a 1-0 win against 10-man Queens Park at Hampden - needing a last gasp, 92nd minute, injury time goal to do so. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with part-time minnows Elgin City at Ibrox - after Elgin had been reduced to 10 men. • Just managed to scrape a narrow 1-0 win over 10-man Peterhead at Balmoor, with a Fran Sandaza tap-in (his first goal in five months) after keeper Graeme Smith had spilled the ball. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with Montrose at Ibrox - needing an own goal from Montrose's Jonathan Crawford to do so. • Knocked out of the Scottish Cup, after being absolutely destroyed 3-0 by Dundee Utd - the same team that knocked us out of the cup the previous year. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with part-time minnows, Stirling Albion at Forthbank - when Stirling were sitting joint bottom of the fourth tier. We managed just 1 point out of a potential 6 at Forthbank that season. • Gubbed 2-1 at Ibrox by an Annan Athletic, a side sitting 34 points behind us, and nestled in second-bottom place at the base of Scottish football's fourth tier. It was only Annan's second away win of the season, having only won 7 league games out of 28 played thus far. • Just managed to scrape a 1-0 win against part-time minnows, Elgin City at Borough Briggs, needing a 73rd minute penalty to do so. • Just managed to scrape a 0-0 draw with part-time minnows, Stirling Albion at Ibrox. • Just managed to scrape a 0-0 draw with part-time minnows, Montrose at Links Park - after Montrose had a perfectly legitimate winning volley from Martin Boyle disallowed. • Gubbed 2-1 at Ibrox by Peterhead, the day after Charles Green stepped down. • Horsed out of the League Cup in the first round by Forfar Athletic, 2-1 in extra time, after failing to beat them over 90 minutes. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with Stranraer at Ibrox, needing a penalty in which to do so. • Just managed to scrape a narrow 3-2 win over Arbroath at Ibrox, needing another dubious penalty award and a highly fortuitous deflection to do so. This was after falling behind twice to the second-bottom placed team, who were FORTY FOUR points behind us prior to kick off. • Just managed to scrape a 3-3 draw with Stenhousemuir at Ibrox, needing an own-goal by Ross McMillan to do so. That was after falling behind TWICE. • Just managed to scrape a 1-0 win over East Fife at Bayview with a 95th minute goal, courtesy of a penalty. • Just managed to scrape a 1-1 draw with Albion Rovers in the Scottish Cup at Ibrox. • Losing the Ramsdens Pawnbrokers Cup Final in extra time to Raith Rovers. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 There are different degrees of fan, from the casual to the diehard, and we all prioritise different things while sharing the same allegiance. The boardroom debacle that is damaging our club has led to thousands of fans opting out of buying season tickets, but I really do wonder - how many of the stay-aways are actually sick of the unimaginative football, the coaching staff and the sight of players who fall well short of the standard we should be aspiring to? It's the standard of play that keeps me away more than the board. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Selective evidence, as I pointed out. Interestingly enough, a list of these "desasters" are whipped up and used as evidence by those who bash aside the argument that we went throughout our league season unbeaten - another "selective truth", of course. There are reasons for failures in every singel match, sometimes they are the same, sometimes they are not. If people solely want to tarr it with the McCoist brush, they ignoring what actually happened on that day. I don't know whether you remember our 1-0 home defeat to ICT, when we conceeding a 93rd min. penalty that Ian Black converted ... with ICT's only shot on the game. By your assumption, one might call us abyssmal too. Nearly (sic!) every game is won or lost for a variety of reasons and playing "bad football" might very well be one of them. Playing good football without scoring goals is another. The pendulum swings both ways, for some it doesn't though. No-one is happy about cup exits and defeats to inferior teams on any other day. Pretending that it simply shall not happen is stretching it though. Likewise is blaming it all on the coach. I think the general feeling about the current Coaching team has been going on long enough for it not to be about a handful of results. there has always been some kind of excuse or reason for the teams performance - mostly off field things, but when it come right down to the nuts & bolts, many fans feel that the coaching teams performances/abilities are far from where they should be. They are no longer rookies, yet the team hasn't changed how it plays from when they were rookies. Barring the odd spell, the team hasn't really shown great signs of overall improvement, despite a large number of personnel changes. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,254 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Does the board have the balls to get rid off Ally? I don't think they do 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Maybe we can keep all of the McCoist debate in THIS thread ??? Wishful thinking on my part probably. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 completely ignoring the facts in front of you. under-performing enough to remove up to 20,000 fans from season ticket purchases. I was expecting a far more balanced appraisal and still not expecting McCoist to come out rosy in the slightest but the OP seems to rely on a lot of the popular memes on this site that are generally far from validated in my eyes. I do think there is enough to criticise McCoist for that can be applied more fairly without resorting to a very blurred, subjective take. The quoted one above is a good example: I really didn't know it was a fact that Ally has removed 20k from the season ticket holders... Without some information to substantiate it, I find it hard to remove this apparent cause from the pleas of a former investor and several fan groups to not buy tickets due to the lack of trust in the board. Maybe the anti-management reason agrees with some anecdotal representation on this forum but I don't see the real evidence for applying it to the support as a whole, and it's all a bit coincidental with the latter reason. Stronger evidence is required for such a big stick to be wielded. There are several other arguments like this in the piece that to me are far from robust and I would be more comfortable if much of it had been given a more reasonable defence when previously challenged on the forum, which is all a bit disappointing. I would agree though, that the sentiment of the piece is representative of the majority view of this forum as I see it, but it also seems that those with an opposing view are being marginalised by being told they are clueless or blind to the "facts" rather than providing what should be an easy defence if these facts are water-tight and so openly obvious. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh you can - its called evidence , evidence as to why people have arrived at the conclusions they have. I think DB was alluding to "cherry picking" and plenty of people do that to arrive at their conclusions in all aspects of life. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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