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For the first 40 or so years of our existence Rangers were no more Protestant a club than Partick Thistle or Falkirk or Arbroath were. The later arrival of that Protestant identity was down to a number of factors. Rangers rise from being simply another football club to being recognised as one the most attractive to watch and the success that brought. Queen's Park's decision to remain amateur and not embrace professionalism. Queen's Park were one of the most famous clubs in the country, hugely influential and successful in football's formative years. By the turn on the 20th century they were already struggling to attract the calibre of player they were used to and losing support. Partick Thistle moving from Partick to Maryhill. Glasgow was a city of 'incomers' in the early 20th century. Family allegiances to clubs didn't yet exist in the way we see them today. Men, and it was almost exclusively men, would finish work on Saturday and many would go and watch a game close to them. Maryhill was a lot harder to get to from Partick and the west of the city, Govan had great transport links and an attractive and successful football team. So thousands of men went to watch Rangers and a habit was formed. Rangers started to attract supporters from all across the city. Not being Celtic. Celtic were successful almost from the day they first played. They had lots of money and were clearly looking to attract the Irish Catholic population of the city, something they did successfully. Many of those not from that background didn't see Celtic as the club for them. Irish home rule became increasingly divisive politically and increased a feeling of 'them and us' in cities with big Irish populations, like Glasgow. Protestant immigration from the north of Ireland. Around a quarter of all the Irish who came to Scotland were Protestant. Many brought with them their culture, for some that included Orange institutions, with numbers swelling during the late 19th and early 20th century. So Rangers changed as it's support changed. We became the 'Protestant' club and the unionist club. We didn't set out that way, it was simply that the city changed around us. The city is changing again, those of us who live in Glasgow can't help but notice. At the same time our players are changing too. My formative years watching Rangers the entire starting 11 were Scots. Robert Pryrz and John McClelland were seen as exotic. My son's heroes are Columbian, Moroccan, Nigerian and Cameroonian. Whether some like it or not our support is changing too. I know supporters who have no religion, indeed strongly dislike organised religion. I know supporters who are strong Scottish nationalists. Supporters who are Marxists. I know practicing Roman Catholics who support Rangers, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and or course Muslims. Many of these people have no attachment to loyalism, Orangism, even Unionism. But I've yet to hear one of them say they want to see Red Hands and Union flags banned from Ibrox, or loyalist songs banned. If your culture is so threatened by our club welcoming a small number of its supporters to enjoy a cultural and religious ceremony then maybe it's got bigger problems.

Correct. celtic opposed an extension of the season because they claimed to have arranged a tour of Japan early in the close season. “Sporting integrity” they called it. There was no such tour. That’s celtic integrity.

Maybe if 'Western powers' didn't kill so many Muslims and cause so much chaos in their imperial ambitions there wouldn't be so much blowback or refugees looking for alternatives. Rangers FC have set out their stall regarding embracing different cultures. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

You are spot on. As Heraclitus said “ change is the only constant in life”, it seems that some in our support are stuck in the past, the world has changed, Scotland has changed as has the Rangers support. My old mate has sat in the Copland for many many years, he’s a Marxist as am I. The guy young guy(29) I go to games with attended a RC school, he’s now like 40% of our support non religious. In the Scottish referendum it was said by pollsters that 40% of Rangers fans voted yes. As usual those who make the most noise think they’re in the ascendancy, a surprise awaits them. I have nothing against people following any religion, I can remember a time when OO marches were huge not now.

Part of the Protestant community have difficulty in celebrating their identity in a positive manner without it being anti-something, generally the RC religion. The club understandably don't want to be associated with anything that's negative towards a section of the community. They probably don't have much issue with the unionist/royalist side of things, but when songs like Flute for 50p or FTP add-ons emerge then it's understandable that the club are wary of embracing anything associated with that. There needs to be a lot more discipline and positivity.

Our club has a rich cultural and identity-driven history, deeply intertwined with Scottish and British traditions. The club is historically associated with Unionist political views, which is reflected in the prominent display of Union Jack flags by many supporters. This connection stems from Rangers' strong base within Glasgow’s Protestant community, which has traditionally held Unionist beliefs and valued ties to the United Kingdom. From recent evidence it seems the club wants to distance itself from this, and align with other, newer cultures to this country. The club isn't owned by us, the owners can do whatever they want. But they should not be surprised that by eroding the major tie the vast majority of us have with the club, that we lose interest not just with hearts and minds, but with our wallets.

Thak God,Mohammed or whoever that we might get back to talking football by Saturday and anticipating what type of banner might be shown,

I've got beer, I've got pizza, and the Merseyside Derby is on SKY: is this what they mean by 'toxic masculinity'?

Please don't call me a bigot. Please, please, pleeeeease.

Ask Alexa to address the salient point, because you obviously can't or don't want to.

We played 5 games in May prior to the final, Eintracht played 4. Both teams played on the Saturday prior to the final. I don't know about ze Germans but in that game against Hearts, we didn't start with anyone in the lineup for the final. A better example would have been 2008.

No, never said that. Nor do I think it is the case. My problem with national flags and patriotism (nearly all of them), is that they are too often abused to push people into acceptance of 'dubious' action(s) and their consequences.

In a way this reminds me of the day we signed Mojo. Cue scarve burning and threats never to return. Wee reminder; our crowds were down to 5,000 for some league games: post Souness we never looked back. I don't see the club rotting in hell. I'm a quarter Northern Irish and my great grandfather was in the Orange Order and lived right next to Ibrox, but I'm no bigot.

Nobody within Rangers just some Guardian readers, bbc folk, university people i.e. those who enrolled and stayed on forever, lefty comedians and maybe even @buster.

... and Zenit was given a week off before the final. Too bad our club had the dignified silence motto ... and for years thereafter. (That means, we didn't really act on this and other strange things.) I am pretty sure that instead of doing that cast-into-stone journey, they hire half a dozen Japanese players a decade later. I think Dundee also waits for that money-spinning friendly they were promised by the Scum for changing their vote after it had landed in the spam folder of the SFA/SPFL/"whatever corrupt institution responsible". Thing is, Scotland never learns, Scottish clubs never learn ...

We have already been cucked by foreign cultures threatened by hurty words in songs. I suppose this is the next logical step.

How about a culture threatened by a banner?

Maybe the forum admin can fast-track your access. It has become quite dull since everyone to the right of Harriet Harman was hounded out.

It all depends what the U.E.F.A. position on cousin marriage is.

Not sure what you are referring to as incestuous relationships. You originally talked of first cousin marriage, which is totally different. In the UK first cousin marriage is legal, though incest is not. Anyhow, maybe better if this discussion takes place in the Lounge as it's got nothing to do with Rangers.

During the Battle of Aisne, on the Western Front of WW1, two men were given the unenviable task of capturing an enemy machine gun post. It was a suicide mission, nevertheless the soldiers followed their orders and attacked. One of the men was Private George Wilson of the Highland Light Infantry, the other man’s name hasn’t been recorded for posterity. Private Wilson received the Victoria Cross for most conspicuous gallantry, a medal you can still see today as it’s displayed in the HLI museum in Sauchiehall Street. Wilson survived the mission and the war. His comrade that day was killed before the enemy machine gun post was secured. Writing about the nature of fate and luck Sergeant Thomas Painting, who was present at the battle, retold the story “Private Wilson from the HLI and one our men attacked a machine gun. Our man got killed but Wilson captured the position. Wilson got the Victoria Cross and our man got a wooden cross, that’s the difference.” Luck, fate or whatever you want to call it is that most elusive and valuable of commodities in football too. Sure, you make your own luck. 30 years from now history will record that Cyriel Dessers scored an injury time winner in a classic 4-3 victory. It’s unlikely anyone then will care that he had 10 or so good chances to score before that. He scored the winner, that’s the only stat that counts. Lucky Cyriel. Lucky Rangers to have him. Unlucky Dundee to keep allowing him to get chances. Luck has been on my mind watching Rangers this year. Had James Tavernier not missed a stoppage time penalty against Queens Park we’d probably have gone on and won that cup tie. Lucky Rangers would have been the gist of the headlines. Clement would have hung on for at least another few weeks, almost certainly until the Fenerbace tie. Luck had something else in mind, no VCs for Phillipe. Barry Ferguson might just be a lucky manager. Certainly he’s incredibly lucky to actually be the Rangers manager. He’s not nearly qualified for the job, indeed I’d argue he would have been lucky to ever get another senior managerial job following his stints at Kelty and Clyde. Yet now he’s managing the biggest club in the country. Not only was Ferguson out of work and available, but so were Allan McGregor, Neil McCann and Billy Dodds, who along with Issame Charai have been unable to fix our defensive frailties but have found a bit of steel from somewhere. A lucky find. Incredibly, Ferguson’s Rangers have yet to win a match at Ibrox. The Fenerbace game was actually a horrible performance, lacking in everything we’ve come to expect from Rangers in the Europa League. Yet we’ve all forgotten about that because Jack Butland chose that moment to re-find the form that made him an England international once upon a time. A 2-0 defeat that felt like a win. We left Ibrox relieved and ecstatic, almost forgetting we’d carried a lot of luck that evening. Our support returned to Parkhead and watched Rangers deservedly go in ahead at the break, before succumbing to Celtic’s Japanese footballers once again. We know how this story normally ends, yet this time it didn’t. Celtic’s defenders decided defending wasn’t for them, Igamane got the break of the ball and delivered a finish so beautiful that should also be displayed in a museum in Glasgow for everyone to admire. Ferguson’s Rangers seem to have all the same weaknesses as Clement’s, yet somehow they feel different. I think, and I say this quietly so as not to break the spell, but I think we’re carrying some luck for what feels like the first time in years. The Dundee disallowed goal, their point blank miss in the second half, oh we’re definitely carrying some luck. It’s about time frankly. Napoleon was once criticised for winning battles through luck. He replied that he’d ‘rather have lucky generals than good ones, lucky ones win battles’. Is Barry Ferguson a lucky general? I hope so. Unlike 8,500,000 others Private Wilson VC survived the First World War and returned to Scotland to resume his life. However, Wilson was taken by TB in 1926 without reaching his 40th birthday. Everyone runs out of luck, eventually.

I know. I spake in jest.

I've had a little silly bet £20 on the toffees to win two nil at odds of 40/1

It is bigotry if your celebrations are anti another religion.... And too often they are. No wonder the club want little to do with it. If we dropped the bigotry, I would more understand the point you are making.

If your own culture is celebrated in a way that is anti another religion, it does. As @Bluedell pointed out earlier, this is too often the case at Ibrox. Making it very difficult for the club to encourage it.

Was the same for the UEL final just recently, Frankfurt were chilling. We'd been through an absolute gauntlet of games. SFA didn't move any fixtures to accommodate.

You keep pulling at that thread, you should take it up with UEFA. Was the banner meant as a threat? It was so clumsily written it's hard to know.

Give it time 👍🏻 people already say that the Union Flag is a symbol of racism.

Section 1 of the Marriage Act 1949 sets out that any marriages that take place within prohibited degrees of relationship are void. Under the legislation, prohibited degrees of relationship for marriage include marriages to a sibling, parent or child, but not marriages between first cousins.

I think that has definitely transformed the annual conversation into an actual rule change. The ongoing political manoeuvres of Lawwell bearing more fruit. That said, we should benefit from the change as well.

Only really helps us if it were for the latter stages of the Europa League 🤭 100% this is to ensure those cunts don't fall on their faces and miss out on UCL.

The word plastic comes to mind. The club will be as plastic as any other. Maybe it already is.

You or whatever particular group don't represent the fan base as a whole. I am neither Loyalist, Unionist or do I play the flute. That said, there are many Loyalists and Unionists in our support. But I doubt that the majority need the club to arrange 'Orange Cultural' days. If it boils your pish to see Muslims celebrating the breaking of a fast at Ibrox, then it is you that has the problem. Rangers FC have apparently chosen a 'wider path', but you are always free to get off. .... I doubt significant numbers of our support will disappear if we don't dress Ross McCausland up in orange. Ps. As far as I am concerned, I am glad that you are free to say how you feel. I welcome it, then people can communicate with each other, even if it is doubtful that it will resolve any issues.

Doesn't work as a defence argument.

I think you’ll find that when it comes to killing muslims, other muslims are proficient at it.

First cousin marriages, is still incest, and although in the UK there are no laws explicitly stating that these marriages can't take place, the marriages act of 1949 prohibits close relations from marriage. So not sure what your point was pal 👍🏻 lounge isn't open to me. But I'll not carry on this discussion in here, that's no worries.

I think Der Berliner told me about a strange decision by the Scottish authorities in 2008. Before (and after?) the final against St. Petersburg, Rangers had to play a dozen games before a set date that "could not be moved"! And Celtic was somehow involved in this for something obscure and irrelevant? DB?

Interesting. It does seem a strange wording to use, deliberately ambiguous. And to announce on 1st April was surely a cynical ploy to underplay this or dampen it to chipwrappers and everyone moves on. Russell Findlay was spot on in his comments.

*Plastic Irish clubs

I don't think luck has anything to do with those stats.

You’ve hit the nail on the head

Would it be bitter, twisted, and downright cynical to suggest that this change comes in when Pederasts FC has to play a qualifier in CL for the first time in a few years ??