Bluedell

Good report, TB. Thanks for that. Hopefully it will add to the weight of evidence that is building up.

Some information here http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=10950

Geek. :devil:

OK. What's SEO?

Yes, has to be McGregor. Outstanding.

Let's hope the Blackberry one comes soon.

I'm sure some of it was, but not the issue with employing Rangers fan. That was Bain himself. Agreed. People do change, and perhaps Bain has grown into the role more than he had in the past.

Andy, I'm not suggesting that he says things every time, but he (and SDM) have allowed the support to be slaughtered routinely over the past 5 or 6 years, and they have stood back and allowed it to happen. My comment was more aimed at that side rather than specifically Celtic. He has also had plenty of other opportunities to praise the fans and not taken the opportunity. For example, I believe that the club received praise from Arsenal on our fans at the Emirates tournament, and the club deliberately hushed it up, and would not have it publicised. I can't go overboard on the praise of a man who has discriminated against employing Rangers fans in the past.

He sold Murray International Metals in 2005, but still has over 50% of his turnover in metals. Yes, he has moved into property although this isn't reflected in turnover as a lot of it is still in development, and a lot of the potential would be in capital growth. If he had the cashflow to meet the loans then assuming that there was a pick-up then, potentially everything would be OK. It's a big IF though. It always appeared that he was going to struggle to meet the payment of the loans even if there had been no banking crisis and no fall in the commercial property market. If we go with the assumption that he would have been able to rengotiate the payment terms of the loans then there should have not been a problem, but I don't see why he took that risk. It would have been interetsing to see what would have happened, but I guess we will never find out.

Shroomz, I'm not sure of interest rates on a short term loan would be significantly lower than a long term one. Given that a lot of the MIH companies/properties could be sold and the proceeds going to the bank, there may not be anything left for him to start with again.

That's the big question. Murray has always run Rangers on a short term basis and always seemed to hope that a solution (Enic, Dave King, NTL, JJB) could be found. He hoped to find another investor in 2000/1 but that seemed to disappear post 9/11 and we ended up with massive debts. This time it's the banking crisis that he hasn't foreseen and it's hit him big time in respect of MIH. i presume he thought he could always renegotiate, and he hasn't learned his lesson from before that unexpected world events can come and bit you.

Because it takes years of training and experience to be able to analyse a set of accounts so well. I spoke to an number of financial analysts and fund managers yesterday and they were actually very bullish about commercial property, but I understand that it's just the last few weeks that have changed their minds. One gave me a presentation where his slides said that they expected weaker market conditions over the next 2 years, but he contradicted this by suggesting that he was going to increase their holdings in it, so it seems that there has just been a change in market sentiment very recently. It appears that there are gains to be made, but it could all come too late for MIH, who appear to need a lot of cash quickly and may have to be broken up to be able to get this.

The worst idea ever in the history of football.

The MIH accounts have been delayed until towards the middle of next year, so I thought I would take a quick look at a couple of major problems that they may be having, based on the last set of accounts that they issued as at January 2008. Property values/net assets Net assets (total assets less total liabilities) in the accounts were shown as �£157m. Included in this is property of �£545m. Commercial property values have fallen 30% since the start of 2008, which would equate to �£163m. If this new valuation was applied to the 2008 accounts then the Murray group would have net liabilities and would be technically insolvent. It is perfectly possible to be technically insolvent, while still being able to repay debt. This is the next area to be looked at. Repayment of debt The accounts show that MIH had �£4m of cash, but had loans of �£26m to repay in the year to 31 January 2009. Perhaps not the biggest problem in the world. However in the current year, MIH had a whacking �£406m of loans to repay, with no apparent way of doing so. Given the current banking crisis, it is not thought that MIH would have been able to renegotiate the payment terms of these loans, and must have resulted in MIH defaulting on some of its repayments and perhaps some related banking covenants. This would be what has allowed the bank to insist on the appointment of Donald Muir to the board of both Rangers and the Premier Property Group, and is apparantly giving him the power to over-rule the other Rangers board members. Lloyds obviously want to recoup as much of this cash as quickly as possible, and has them forcing changes on Rangers who had a managable financial situation, at least in the short term of the next 12-18 months. When people buy a house it is viewed a long term asset and they pay for it with a long term mortgage. Why MIH decided to finance the purchase of commercial property with short term loans is unexplainable and is possibly the biggest mistake David Murray has made in his career, and could ultimately result in MIH being wiped out. It has certainly put Rangers under threat but it must be hoped that Rangers emerge unscathed and looking forward to a bright future if a new owner can be found. Caveat - This is a very simplistic view and there are a number of assumptions made. I have not gone into technical details to make it easier for the reader to understand. Property values are said to have fallen 22.5% during 2008 and have fallen a further 7.5% in the 9 months to Sept 2010 (source IPD UK balanced Monthly Funds). However a well-respected fund manager told me that it was nearer 43%. MIH's property may be of a higher quality and may not have fallen by as much, but Ibrox is overvalued and as such I don't think 30% is unreasonable, although I am no expert on commercial property.

Feck. My green has gone from empty to full and my orange is only half full. "Sure it is old......" as he attempts to get his orange up.

What's with the new orange and green bands under some names? Is that an assessment of how staunch or timmy we are?

Yes, it's a very good statement by Bain, but it's something that he should be doing routinely. Have things got that bad that we are now having to praise our CEO for doing something that should just be a standard part of his job?

Which Boyd will take and hit straight into the wall. Every time. Can we as a club not come up with something more imaginative?

I see a total of �£2,323 has been raised. Well done to all involved.

If the fans' groups have entered negotiations then it would be normal business practice not to disclose the fact until there was at least a draft proposal on the table. Coming out at this stage just raises expectations and it appears that nothing of any substance has been agreed. The reports don't even say which fans' groups. The stories may not be true and be planted by the bank to try and force Dave King into the open or cause a split in the support.

I got 8 points at the w/e. :spl:

It's a fair point, as it's already been posted on several occasions, but there are still a lot of people who don't believe it, and the repeated messages don't do any harm.

Andy, I posted the following comments on the RM version of this thread. I can understand some of the scepticism to David's post as some of the facts don't seem likely, and also some would prefer to think that they are not true. However I understand that there are a lot of facts about this whole matter that have not been made public yet, and if/when they do then the whole thing start to make a lot more sense, and it would be seen that we do have major problems at this point, and that what David has posted is indeed correct. I am hearing this same story from everybody who is in the know at Ibrox and there are just too many knowledgable people stating it for it not to be correct.

He posted it on RM as well.