rbr

Yes and this article says that Silverburn is attracting bids as well , no mention that the holding company have been put to the sword by HBOS , like I said this guy has no interests in football , and when he told me they were being forced to sell this property for potentially �£20 million below what would have been expected it certainly raises suspicion , remember this was a grade 10 property , you dont get any better listing . Come on spanner you are holding onto the well used Murray line a wee bit too tightly , it's time to let go and see the light , walk away from the dark side young vader :box::box::box:

As our Chairman said , no one wants to play poker with Rangers as the stakes

Do you really see the press having the free run that they currently enjoy if Souness was running the show , far too many of our "media friends " are only too happy to have a go now as they see a possible end game arriving and dont want to miss an open goal

On a wee side note , one of my best friends is a commercial surveyor who specializes in freelance work , he prefers it that way it means he can piss off to the golf whenever he wants , anyway this guy has no interest in footbal what so ever ,so whats the deal , well this morning whilst out walking the dogs he starts telling me how business is absolutely terrible now that HBOS and LLoyds have started playing hard ball with everyone , the have put the guy who built Silverburn into Liquidation as they have called in his loans and this is what I found interesting they have forced Murray to sell the buildiing he bought beside the Old Albany hotel which Murray had refurbished and which has already been fully let on a 5 year lease , as well as forcing him to sell a plot he owns at the top of Buchanan street which is seen as the last prime spots of real estate on Buchanan street . Just goes to prove Murray really must be in the grubber , the building in question is going for �£ 70 million , yet if left to ride out the recession would be worth easily �£90 million , his words not mine

Or even better if our Chairman made a statement of intent at the AGM and had members of the main fans groups on the stage when he made then , but then if Carlserg did AGM's

Frankie from my own limited use of this site and various other "smaller" sites , the biggest and probably best thing I can say is that these sites encourage debate where as FF has for a few years now strangled and derailed anything from the " party line" , whatever the party line is at any one time . I had set views on the RST , on rangers in general and on various other matters related to our once great club , the debate on here does not allow you to rest on your laurels if you cannot back your arguement up , in fact the way some debate their points on here at times you or rather I feel a bit stupid for even posting some of the things I have . All of this is healthy , you dont get people running away screaming timposter if they dont agree with your point of view , there is nothing healthy about posting rubbish and before you know it that rubbish becomes the accepted , drip drip drip anyone , sound familliar to another problem we have . Back to the main point , this site can never be described as having anything other than the best intentions with regards what we all come on here to talk about which is Rangers , however what I have come to understand is that certain sites namely FF , it's almost as if they are as big as the club and in certain peoples minds obviously as important , the RST had a campaign of Rangers First , some would do well to remember this and adopt it themselves.

But is that fog of murray's own doing , now that is the question my dear maineflyer

I think this is impossible to gauge , you hear guys talking about having different usernames depending on the site's they go on, there are definetly timposters by the dozen , and FF is infested with them , that's one reason I rarely post just browse on there .so my answer is more than 1 but less than 1,000,000 , sorry but god only knows

Sorry phrased that bit wrong , I was discussing a simillar point with UCB that if the club dont drive this then it's irrelevant what any fans group want or say

Yet the papers were quite happy to state last week that we owed �£9 million for transfers over and above what was disclosed in last weeks financials , the daily mail I think it was

Maineflyer I think you have hit the preverbial nail on the head and as every day goes by more and more are backing away from where we were a few weeks ago , Dave King was going to buy us , then he was part of a consortium , next we had the West of Scotland 4 , then on the day the financials were announced the Florida Billionaire which just happened to go against what AJ was pleading for in the media that anyone interested should make themselves known , now the Souness rumour just because he said he didn't want the Scotland job , even Murray couldn't flim flam this well . As I said earlier and Maineflyer more succinctly pointed out unless the club actually drive this forward and allow any fans group to get behind it we are going nowhere , we cannot successfully change anything without the will of the club

sorry I seem to have missed this point where did this point 1 come from

That is a very very good point and hopefully something that the club would recognise without having to be asked , if they seriously think this years AGM is going to be done and dusted as per they are very much mistaken

This is / was my point it isn't your responsibility to declare peace/unity , it is for the club to enter into dialogue with us the fans through all these many different groups and come up with a concrete workable coherent plan that we can all unite behind , that's the only way we will move forward . When the majority of the non internet browsers get the message that is when the ground swell will begin and you are correct in that there is massive good feeling towards this club that can help via the media you talked of this earlier , but for any of this to happen the club needs to get a grip of where it wants to be , whether they are serious about fans owning the club or whether it is just a smokescreen to try and flush out would be investors .

The RST , Assembly and Association should all be applauded for their actions , and like Frankis alludes to should be getting together to try and get one unified message across , now we have a different leadership at Rangers , Murray is away and from what I have seen and heard from Bain to a certain degree the shackles have been removed . Surely now is the time for the club to work with the support in getting the message out to the high fan base the club holds on file , whether through a mass e-mail , text , clubweb site what ever . Also it should be explained who and what each supporters group actually represents , I as a member of the RST know what their aims and objectives are , well some of them anyway , but as for the Assembly and Association , not a clue . Also what about NARSA they have a hugh fanbase , we are limited only by our own imagination and from what I have seen and read over the last few weeks and even years the Rangers fans are truly in a league of their own . :spl::spl:

Craig I dont think simply changing the elected members would go far enough or even achieve anything perception wise , there are far too many different supporters factions , if you ask any fan at Ibrox who doesn't visit an online site they will just give you a very baffled look , we are far to fragmented and have to come together under one common aim , and that is Rangers , how that is achieved I do not know but the main groups must face up to this and do it pronto

This is so like the debates that started around the end of Wee Dick's tenure when respected posters started really questioniong the viability of our transfer policy only to be shouted down by the MURRAY is God brigade , of which I happened to belong at that time and for my sins , now we have a very simillar situation except you either believe we are in trouble or you believe it is a big scary bogey story by the press , well I have read far too much , and listened to the opinions of friends inside the media to believe this is anything but real , if you continually want to believe everything is hunky dorey then batter at it , your glass will always be full .

Very well put UCB , on another point but hopefully still relative to this thread , as a lifetime member of the trust that didn't make the last AGM , at this critical time do you agree that getting the message across not only to RST , Assembly , Assosciation members , but the whole support is an absolute must and what means are being put in place to do this if any , also the talk about a " figurehead " to face up the campaign is getting alot of press , do you also agree that whoever this may be they must be in it for the long haul and not to give it a bit of glitz or glammer . Sorry this is turning into Prime Minister's question's :)

you are the one keeping this going , you started your first post on this by stating you weren't a financial expert , 5 pages on your word is gospel and respected posters not only on this site but on many Rangers site's are having to back up their own opinions to suit yours , which by the way is just an opinion and nothing you have posted has been backed up by facts either .

Spanner I am not trying to muscle in on your debate , but after reading this whole thread what exactly is the jist of your point , is it that the situation is not as bad as is being made out ,by the chairman , by Walter Smith and by the media in general some of whom are financial journalist who are not idiots and are not swayed by a love of a certain club . If this is the case is this some super plot by Murray with the collusion of A J and our manager to dupe everyone into what exactly !!!! We are at a crossroads , as a support we must decide how we move forward , there are posters on here much better and far cleverer than me at expressing the views and concerns necessary to make this a possibility , but this is not something to be rushed at . Who ever the single benifactor , or consortium turn out to be , they must work with the support to find common ground , this situation must never be allowed to arise again and we must find a solution that gives us something we have been sadly lacking for years , STABILITY , only then can we move forward without having to continually be in a continual wave of boom or bust , buy or sell . The various factions and supporters groups of which I for one believe are too many , must come together under one banner , the support is already divided and truly apathetic to what is happening with the vast majority believing , especially , at this time of year that a Santa figure is going to save us . One thing is certain , the situation is serious no matter what spin you may put on it.

That era was my watershed moment with Scotland , we beat Cyprus at hamrden just McCoist and johnston the scorers in a 2-1 win , but they played us off the park . We then had the debacle of Italy 1990 and we were truly shambolic , from the stories of the players having to behave like school kids having their tops tucked in and their socks all the same length's to having to play wee games and sing songs , it was more like a boys scouts outing than a serious football competition . Yet where is this arse of a man , at the very heart of UEFA advising on all things football , you couldn't make it up if you tried :giruy:

Let's be honest about this , the whole set up was a shambles right from the get go , no city in Britain could or would have expected the influx of supporters that we took and certainly Manchester were as unprepared as they possibly could have been . On the way home the day after there was a gentleman on Radio Scotland , his name I unfortunately didn't catch , anyway it turned out he was Glasgow District Council's major events manager and had been down to liase and assist the Manchester authorities , whilst not condoning the behaviour of the fans beecause we have to accept some of the blame , he absolutely slaughtered the setup and the shambolic preperations as well as the exceptionally poor control of resources on the day , now the reason I mention this is because the Evening Times contacted him later to do a follow up story on what he had witnessed only to be told that he was under instructions from his employer's ( the cooncil ) not to make his views known to anyone especially the press , but that he was compilying a full report , it later transpired that this report was never either published or made available . No matter what happened that day will still live with me forever and no matter what my feelings are about Wattie I will forever be grateful to him for getting the opportunity to see my club take part in a major european final , something I never thought I would get to experience . Even better was getting my picture taken holding the trophy with Ray Wilkins just before it was taken away to be placed on the pitch , fantastic

It isn't rocket science really , kids from a young age are being asked to train and play on pitches which quite frankly you would think we kept animals on , time after time games are called off at the last minute as piches are deemed unplayable , and the kids just get more and more fed up . Why we dont move youth football to the summer months is beyond me the pitches are better the weather is generally better , well at least the rain is warm ,the light is better , seriously we are a back water and so stuck in our ways it's not true . The approach to our professional game is just as bad watch any football at any level and you see the same stuff , players unable to do the basics well , very little appreciation of any positional play and very very little movement off the ball , our complete lack of ability in this field is what amazes me more than anything , year after year we watch small teams from very small leagues come over and completly pass us off the park , their movement off the ball is a joy to behold yet we never learn , why is a mystery and must be down to coaching , until we change this basic style of play we will never improve , but what do I know ,I never went to Largs !!!!!!

Just wait to see the media backlash against not just Boyd but Rangers as a club , christ they quote Burley as some type of Scotland legend , well that certainly wasn't my recollection of him , he was overrated , over hyped and he is well gone as should most of the SFA hangers on who only 2 months ago gave him their full backing . What is required is a total overhaul of our entire game from kids ( 5,6 ) years old right through schools football to how we actually coach kids . The Largs Mafia which was set up by that arse Roxbourgh is a total sham which has never achieved anything ofote in all the years it has been around , sooner or later we will wake up to how badly we run football in this country and instead of critiscizing the kids actually realise how badly we have let them down

cheers guys it just further enhanced my own feelings that the continual drip drip effect is unfortunately working , hopefully come a change in ownership will come a change in direction as well , obviously the press feel they have an open goal to shoot into , and as Liewell continually spoon feeds them and feeds them , as Murray also did it has to be said ,they must be feeling pretty smug