Leaderboard

If Club 1872 is a truly a members organisation then surely it would ask the members how they want their donations spent? They should ask the following question to members. How would you like your donations to be invested in Rangers shares A - all my donation/s used to purchase shares directly from Dave King's holding. B - all my donation/s used to purchase new shares directly from Rangers. C - 50% of my donation/s used to buy shares directly from Dave King and 50% of my donation/s used to purchase shares directly from Rangers. It's a relatively easy option to set up and maintain which gives members a true choice.

It's a must win game and we should treat it as such

I find it hard to get annoyed with this Rangers side. Which feels weird. Not at our best but could've scored a handful against a decent Belgian side. Not bad.

Another fantastic result tonight, you can't always be great, however we showed tonight we just don't give up, again, we really do have a great mentality running through this team, excellent!.

I don't think anyone doubts the debt of gratitude we owe Dave King, I dread to think where we'd be today without him and the Three Bears and I say that unequivocally. However that doesn't mean we can't doubt the timing and method of what's currently being proposed or rather imposed if you wish.

Just to emphasise that the club needs £14.4m of additional cash for next season. We seem to be saying that we don't care about that. We could raise the vast majority of it but rather than use it to help the club, we're going to give it to Dave King and just sit back and let Douglas Park and John Bennett supply the funding. Is that attitude more likely or less likely for Park and Bennett to continue to put money into the club? These are presumably emotional guys who may turn round and say "fuck it. If you're giving your cash to King , why should we give our cash to the club?" C1872 are playing with fire.

I should also say that there's a big difference between guaranteeing the funds for the purpose of the going concern note in the accounts and actually paying it over. It's possible that Park and Bennett have no intention of putting in the £14m for next season and it will be funded completely through the sale of players. and it would only be in the worst case scenario that we were unable to sell players where they would need to use the proposed funding.

The very reason that this has caused the furore that it has , is solely down to Club1872 and the elected representatives , for 2 going on 3 years we have had next to no communications other than the odd statement via selected news outlets , there have been no members meetings , nothing . Now out of the blue with again no regard to members feelings they have agreed a deal with DK , which has absolutely no detailed plan behind it , it raises more questions than answers imho. We really need fresh elections and properly qualified people to run this org , we are talking about possibly £13 million of fans money , it’s not chicken feed .

To be clear, Dave King has denied all talk of any board room rift with Park or any other and says it’s a nonsense He will directly address this in my interview with him next week Make of that what you will

Not that fans criticising players has ever resulted in better performances anyway. I see tonight’s win as a massive achievement- previously we wouldn’t have won that, which for me confirms our progress.

Great result...well done Rangers and thank you Alfredo for your unselfish workrate tonight.

This keeps us top of the group. Just wow. What an achievement. To even have a chance of doing that going into the last game is incredible. Another £500k in the bag too and crucial coefficient points.

One this is blatantly obvious , that even after everything we have been through , the level of business acumen we have in general through out the support , and general knowledge on the goings on at companies that operate such as ours is very very limited .These are the people that club1872 and to an extent DK are targeting with the “never again “ campaign slogan as it pulls on the heart strings , but it’s shameless and I’m embarrassed that they have sunk so low . I have no axe to bare with DK and like most am very thankful for the majority of what he achieved , Ashley apart because that became personal between them . As the old saying goes , a fool and their money are easily parted .

Has Chris not refreshed the battery bay in the Seville (or is it Saville?) Calculator and used the PQ podcast to peddle the line that it was merely ‘50’ fans that were in the car park. Is he inferring that the other 250 odd (clearly pictured) were members of a h-u-n sleeper cell? Can we expect Juan Ghuy to make his customary appearance by the weekend? Peter’s puppets will swing into heightened action from this evening no matter the result for Lurgan Flopp’s charges. Put the kettle on for it.

So you're sustainability question is looking at it from a C1872 viewpoint? I'm only looking at it from the club's perspective. I believe that if the cash is invested in the club then it will make it easier for the club to continue without running into significant financial difficulties. The cash from the existing shareholders will dry up at some point and players will have to be sold...potentially costing us the league or European progression, which has its own financial implications. Getting an extra £13m will allow us to go that bit longer without taking drastic steps.

It would be around 21%. If they buy the shares from King then it's 25% but the club still needs the £14m and if that comes from Park/Bennett and they convert it into shares than C1872's % falls from the 25% back to 21%. C1872 end up with the same % in the second scenario but none of their cash has gone to the club.

Well done to the team tonight. For long periods in the game we struggled but we continued to work hard, retained confidence in our attacking play and, eventually ran out well deserved winners. To qualify with a game to spare in this group from an unbeaten position is superb and deserves immense credit. But, I'm now only interested in beating a wee team my Papa supported in the Black Isle.

Brilliant achievement Rangers - qualified with a game to spare and still top of the group. 7 years ago today we were playing Forfar (IIRC) at Ibrox, tonight we've secured a victory in EL and are 24 games unbeaten this season.

One thing that I feel should be pointed out, and it doesn't have any direct relevance to this but Dave King has already sunk 20 million into the club under Murray's stewardship too. Money he never recouped. His Rangers-friendly credentials are there for all to see. It feels a little churlish to bemoan him given everything he has done for the club, both financially and non-financially, over the years.

The two of you need to take a step back from this subject , I like and respect both of you , so please , walk away from this and agree to disagree

You are responding saying don’t go ‘greeting’ and the likes, hardly friendly It wasn’t an explanation, it was another example of you forcing your opinion at me (When people do this stuff it shows - YOU) As for being a snowflake? Really?! Lol - More like I have no desire to waste my time arguing about a subject that many points we actually agree on & I’ve never challenged you about but you still don’t see it However, this thread is getting clogged up with crap like this, so DM & we’ll discuss or we’ll move on - isn’t worth wasting the thread on Big game tonight an all ??

Like the Mr. Beaton (Castore), he seems to have signed up for the full tour of Rangers podcasts. Like Mr.Beaton, he has something to propose/sell. Don't get me wrong. I more than recognise what Dave King has done for the club and put my grain of sand toward the good fight back in the day but IMO, you have to judge things on their particular merits and as they come along. The current fragility is financial rather than the make-up of the board (btw. already mostly Rangers fans).... and that is what IMO, needs addressed within what is a relationship of vested interests.

My charming wit, to help my desire for a blazer, to star on 4lads pod with the other esteemed guests we have had?

Surely the primary aim of Club1872 shouldn't be to own shares, although that looks increasingly the case, but to assure the long term security of Rangers. It seems many presume these two aspirations to be essential the same thing. To anyone willing to stop and think, that's not necessarily the case. At the moment, as far as I can see, little more than blind acceptance connects one to the other and too many well-meaning fans seem to be fuelled only by faith and hope, while their charity is being hijacked and offered in entirely the wrong direction. Far from having gone away, I have a growing suspicion that some of our old problems have only been hiding in the shadows and may be about to bite us on the arse yet again. The smell of self-interest once again hangs in the air. Gaining control should never have been the priority for Club1872. It should always have been about assuring the best interests of Rangers. It's easy to appear benign and competent when you have people like Whyte, Green, etc running the club but where's the evidence Club1872 offers anything we need today. Where is there the slightest sign that Club1872 possesses any of the qualities or resources needed to play such an important role in the future of the club? I can however see lot's of reasons why Club1872 should never be in a position to obstruct good governance, which is where it will be if this nonsense comes to pass.

It is slightly surprising that C1872 haven't attempted to improve their governance and transparency prior to announcing such a scheme. There is no doubt that this is a massive undertaking, albeit one that on the face of it, I'm willing to support. This will only work if they get the right support and infrastructure in place, so it seems quite short sighted to not have anticipated these areas would be questioned. More broadly, there are some within our support who don't support C1872 for a variety of reasons, and things like this will only harden their views and make it harder to persuade new members to sign up and hand over their cash.

More sustainable than not putting anything in.

The priority should be the success and the financial stability of the club. if gaining control is a higher priority then some do not have their priorities right.

Some may have seen some threads on FF over the past 12 hours and wondered what is going on. Some of it was information that I knew confidentially and couldn't reveal and there's been a bit of new information and here's my take on it. Chris Graham is heavily involved with C1872 and it's been suggested to me that nothing happens without his approval, although he is unelected. He seems to be acting as a shadow director. He was employed by Rangers (apparently at a salary of £75K) although this has never been publicised. I think he was being paid for doing a lot of the C1872 administration but I'm not 100% sure on that. When Dave King stood down as a director, Chris's job disappeared. I've read that Park dislikes Graham but don't know the veracity of it, but given the job loss, it's highly possible. The Chris Graham-influenced C1872 is now proposing to lead a fund raising campaign for cash to King rather than the club, without the members being consulted as to where they would like the cash to go. The question raised on FF was "Is Chris Graham losing his circa £75k salary from Rangers the catalyst for C1872 power grab?" While I disagree with the use of "power grab" it's an interesting question. Is it some sort of payback for the job loss?

Sounds awful. U.E.F.A. just makes things worse with each change. The competitions are already heavily to the advantage of clubs with big audiences. What more do they want?

I note the overnight carfuffle over on FF on specific things/allegations to do with this matter and the customary division based mainly on faith or lack of, in individuals involved. Disregarding the difficulty of raising large sums of money in what will be a time of general economic carnage,...shouldn't it simply be about what is best for the football club? IM(inexpert)O, the recent accounts spell out the need for new money.

The bheasts would be better off paying for us to go to Dubai for a winter training camp!

Agree, and I would add Helander to that who is a better defender than Balogun IMO.

Really poor start from us, but I think that's more to do with Liege's approach than us - although we've taken a long time to get to grips with them, and been a bit lethargic and tame in challenges. Our defending has been terrible. Their wingers are constantly in space. Got out of jail at the end with the Penalty. It was a Penalty but it's harsh. I thought we were starting to get to grips with them, and created a couple of good chances towards the end of the half. We need to buck up defensively and find a way to play through (or over the top) them.

No better way to annoy to the tims glued to this game right now than to equalise with a Tavernier penalty at the end of the half

Probably the worst 40 minutes from us since Livingston away, and then we get a goal out of nothing to get back in it, only for our entire back 4 to go to sleep all at once to allow Liege to retake the lead, only for us to go back up the park and get a very lucky penalty to equalise again. Please let us get to HT now, it’s only a minute.........

We are very sloppy tonight, could be 2 or 3 down already.

Bet365 were offering odds as to who you were going to finish second behind this season ? For old times sake... 1-0; Tav

McGregor Tav Goldson Balogun Borna Davis Kamara Arfield Morelos Roofe Kent Team for tonight????

Which is all well and good. But how do they then plan to finance the future financial burden that may come ? There can't be a reliance on Park & Bennett et al to continually provide the funding - and, even if they do and that funding is converted to shares then it dilutes C1872's shareholding.... and when that happens they drop below the %age needed to veto any super-majority votes. So how are they going to fund not just the 13 million, but also to maintain %age shareholding in the event further funding is needed ? This is the problem - they have brought a suggestion that only covers one piece of the jigsaw. I don't think they should be doing that without having a plan for the short, medium AND longer term.

Fair enough., However the rest of it should be kept in mind when reviewing the overall strategy of C1872.

Nail not only struck on head but driven home in one whack. Fan ownership might be ok but not for any club at a higher level than Shrewsbury Town. Don’t tell me Real. I doubt if Manolo fae Madrid has much say in their governance.

It's amazing that Stevie's innocuous fist post has triggered the responses it has. I have no financial expertise so I respect the contributions of those who have. They make valid points which I am sure Stevie will cover off in his discussions. My initial reaction was in line with Stevie. I thought that a fan group owing a large share holding would be a good thing and I maybe mistakenly believed that this would be a widely held view. If what is being said that the fans owning a sizable share would deter other investors, then maybe a fans holding is not such a great idea after all. I look forward the Stevie reporting on his discussions. They may not unite all gersnetters but I'm sure I'll be better informed.

Daft question. What if club1872 don't raise all of the money? As a fan of club1872 my questions would be more for them going forward (most of it covered in other posts). Guarantees/transparency etc has to be addressed. They'll need to admit and own what has went wrong in the past. Some of their work (confronting papers and BBC) has been fantastic. But it's been erratic and they've disappeared completely for huge periods of time. A consistent, reliable, transparent defender of the club and support is what I'd expect from them in return for any investment.

It has never made sense. A piece of the jigsaw is definitely missing