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On Sunday Rangers will play one of their most important games of the season. We travel to Hampden park for the Scottish cup semi-final against our old rivals Celtic. With the league virtually out of our reach the season could only really be called a success if we could lift the Scottish cup. Just a few weeks ago we were so full of confidence that we could beat Celtic in the league and were actually well on top of them when they went down to ten men. That was it we thought. With a man advantage we would charge on to victory and put us right back in the race to win the league title. Nothing could have been further from the reality as Rangers seemed to lose all shape and it was Celtic who got the winning goal. Instead of fighting for the League title a further loss against Kilmarnock and a draw at Motherwell has actually put us in a three horse battle for the second spot with Hibs and Aberdeen, going in to the last five game split. On Sunday the players get the chance to redeem themselves. This will be some of the players last chance to win some silverware so hopefully they will bring their A game to the table. While Celtic are the bookies red hot favourites, this is a one game effort and as we all know in an old firm derby all form goes out of the window. It is who stands up to be counted on the day. The last time we met them in the cup at Hampden we went on to beat them in a penalty shoot-out. Of course the grass that day was of a masonic cultivation as Rogic' s standing leg pushed up the turf and he ballooned the ball over the bar to put Rangers into the final. The less said about the final the better. Celtic will most likely start with a 4-2-3-1 with Scott Brown and Nitcham playing deeper and Forest Rogic and Armstrong\McGregor giving them the forward push. Dembele will be the lone striker They call Scott Brown the Lego eater but to be honest given his intelligence I don't think he got past the Duplo stage. He can however command the midfield and giving him the space and time to run the game will be suicide as we saw at Ibrox three weeks ago when they went down to ten men. So how can we set up to combat in the vital midfield area. One thing is certain we cannot face it with a two man midfield of Docherty and Dorrans. We need that third man in there and in a perfect world I would love to see young McCrorie in the midfield. Unfortunately when you look at our defence, can we afford to leave Alves and Martin as our main centre-backs? That would certainly leave us short of pace and the inclination to lie deeper which would virtually scuttle the early pressing game. Alves has probably been the biggest disappointment to Rangers supporters who were expecting a world beater. In all honesty he looks more like a carpet beater. Yes, he wins everything in the air but I still can't remember him making a decent tackle. We all know Celtic will not be punting high balls up to Dembele to combat Alves in the air. With David Bates being injured the only other name on offer is Fabio Cardoso. He has had next to no game time with his last game being when he came on for Bates.against Celtic and played a big part in poor defending for the third goal. With McCrorie sitting in front of the defence it would mean that a lot of balls would be mopped up in the midfield though. Murty certainly has a difficult decision to make. We could of course go for a far more defensive plan and sit deeper and put the fit again Windass up as a loan striker to use his pace on the break. The Celtic defenders would certainly love not getting beaten up by Morelos but they are also not the quickest defenders out there and the speed of Windass may upset them more than the battering of Morelos and that also offers up the chance to play a five man midfield keeping our two wide players. We would be giving away territory but that would give us far more room to break into. It would also give far more room for Tavernier and John to break into This could be a line up in that situation Foderingham Tavernier Martin Alves John McCrorie Goss\Holt\ Halliday Candeias Dorrans Murphy Windass I doubt that Murty will change that much and fully expect Kenny Miller to be playing around Morelos. I really hope he shores up the midfield but I am afraid it will be more of the same. He may put in Halliday or Holt for Docherty but that is about the only change I see on the cards I think his team will be. Foderingham Tavernier Martin McCrorie John Candeias Docherty Dorrans Murphy Miller Morelos As I said the favourites do not always win and below is one of the greatest examples of that.

Groups pointing out the bias against us is to be welcomed. But as long as Rangers fans provide the funds to keep clubs who are part of the problem going this will keep running. Nobody is reporting what is happening to the average man in the street. Stop buying the papers. Stop going to away matches against the problem. When they are starving they'll maybe change their tune. At the same time get our groups to call out halfwits like Spiers or bigots like Haggerty at every turn.

Started around 2004, I think. It's similar to what Italian clubs do, with a star for every 10 league titles (Juve have 2, maybe 3 stars and the two Milanese clubs have 1 star each). I quite liked it initially but it has served its purpose and I'd just go back to a big, bold RFC again.

Surely the words should be 'won't match' Graeme. F***in amateur!

In respect of this really excellent piece of writing from Rick Roberts, there have been two huge frustrations in recent years. The first was the fractured nature of those seeking to speak for the many supporter factions, who used far more energy decrying each other than was ever expended on our detractors. The second was the decision of Club1872 to engage such a narrow agenda, focussed almost entirely on share ownership and a seat on the board. I think it’s now clear Club1872 is to be the fans’ vehicle but it really needs to set aside its continuing obsession with share ownership and be the voice of the support that it could be. We have enormous collective influence but the old divisions and frustration will reappear unless the potential is turned to action.

Absolutely top class stuff from @Rick Roberts - make sure you spend a few mins reading his fine, fine call to arms. https://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/news-category/current-affairs/898-could-fan-power-assist-in-our-ongoing-pr-wars

So we should just pay whatever everyone asks for ? We've been there, didn't end well....

I agree. So Bates was in circa 2k a week in wages. Who are we going to sign that’s up to the standard required for even double that? Cardozo, Martin and Alves don’t cut it. The two that do/did were McCrorie and Bates. Now Bates has gone? It’s just a strange bit of business??

Agree with all of this but part of the remit must be to call out our own when they step out of line. That would give more substance to such an initiative. We must not simply defend Rangers but call out the malicious detractors in the most public but legal and respectful manner. The platform must obviously be social media and it will take some serious professional input and energy to turn this round. It makes sense for 1872 to be the vehicle with support and funding from the club. 1872 perhaps needs to amend its raision detre to accommodate and have clear delineation between the body questioning the club and the part of it that needs support from the club and it’s resources. I for one would volunteer and give my time to assist a constructive initiative in any way that helps. I am sure there are many like me. There is nothing stopping this happening.

we sometimes forget how lucky we are to have lived a full life

Careless use of words is becoming a regular occurrence for Murty.

Every club and its dog invents a reason to put stars on their shirts now. I’d scrap it, we don’t need to boast about our achievements

Scotland used to be a fertile breeding ground for the successful old fashioned style of manager mainly because of the force of personality/character allied to the straightforward, humble but hard working class background (often old industrial areas like mines). For those that were really successful, you could add a very football savvy brain and a charasmatic leadership. Fast forward and the new style of successful manager coming through is something else altogether and generally have a make-up that is foreign to the Scottish football culture and none in Scotland that I know have the independent force of character to impose themselves. ie. I think the relative quality of Scottish manager compared to many other nations will continue to go downhill. The ones that end up being really successful will need to work outside Scotland to fully develop. Meanwhile, Scotland will live in it's own footballing bubble.

So you are saying Murty is our man ?

He must have potential or the Germans would never have signed him; there are not that many players from these shores make it in Germany. Think we might regret this. I suppose there's no sell-on fee as it's a pre-contract?

And he is a useful tool, if used correctly and if he applies himself to the best of his abilities. He vanished after he scored against the Yahoos ... and we can't accept that, especially against the Scum. As I said above, no problem to have him on the bench and use him during the later stages for counter attacks.

It wouldn't worry me it was just a thought that's all.

Would that worry you? It wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Our badge is recognized across the footballing world, as is our success. No need for the stars in my opinion.

Well what was HSV's offer ? If it was 20k p.w. or more should we have matched it ? Or bettered it ? Must have been quite a lot for a player who hasn't even played 30 first team games for Rangers. I'm sure I read somewhere that Bates changed his agent recently and that he was no friend of Rangers. If so I suspect that played a big part in this decision which I think he'll regret. Agents advice is bad more often than not. Just ask Scott Allan.

Tav and Morelos

We could get someone better on less money or someone worse on more money, the issue being is that we don't know and our recent record on signing centre-halves and contracts given is poor to awful. With Bates, we knew what we had and part of the unknown gamble is taken away, you could treat that as a commodity that was worth a price. As for better transfer dealings in January...Yes, they were but they didn't have much to improve on and the real litmus test is the summer and we don't know how much say Mark Allen will have or if a new manager/head coach will insist on more control.

I don’t fancy any more titz at Ibrox.

True, but my main point was that they (Germany) have progressive young coaches coming through; we have nothing. It's not come out of nowhere, because they've set up coaching academies. I also think they have good grounding, and good ideas, that they'd be able to do a job at most clubs. Why couldn't we go and get a young German coach? Rodgers has transformed a poor Celtic side, without spending a vast amount on that first team -- although, he has wasted a lot on fringe players. We're very close-minded, I think.

We were, no matter what we say it doesn't really count for anything as players will leave and come in and get paid whatever and we have no say in it, so as I said I'm out of the thread

I will stick with Liverpool to win the cup

Only if hes driving his car

That's a good solid move from Bayern; they're not scrambling to appoint some 'big name', or someone based on a dated record, merely a promising coach who's been doing a very good job at Frankfurt (they play some nice stuff). That's what we should be doing, but there's just no real talent in Scotland; every team plays the same sort of way, and no one is tactically progressive. Jack Ross is probably one of the more promising, but he's not wildly different from the rest.

Reportedly on less than 2k a week and wanted between 7 and 8k a week.

Nobody is doing that, except you! people are only expressing an opinion so no need to get on their backs just because their opinions are different from yours!. I have already stated I am not getting my knickers in a twist about it, I just don't see the point in getting rid of a young Scottish player who has been our best CB while the other are underachieving yet getting paid a lot more

I don't think there was a consensus. Some rate him and some don't. Shouldn't be difficult to figure out which ones are most vocal just now.

Club 1872 is a major shareholder of the club. If it sees the club's name (and thus "its shareholding") being brought into disrepute by libel and blackmail, half-truths and lies, why not take action and send a lawyer (e.g. the omni-potent Donald Findlay) after these people and papers? Make complaints to Ofcom et al. Utilize the Fighting Fund if need be. Just do it!

Nobody is doing that, we're just expressing disappointment at what is a disappointing developement. We already needed a £2m+ centre back brought in in my opinion to compete with Bates and McCrorie with Cardoso and Alves leaving ideally to free up wages. With Bates leaving it looks to me like our money is going to be spread more thinly signing a couple of centre backs which is a bad thing, we need quality for next season and not quantity.

The reality is that until we are further down the line and we see how the squad/mgmt. is shaping up for next season, how our budget has been spread and in this case, who are options are at centre-half.....we won't get a full picture to make a judgement from. The other unknown is how Bates will get on with Hamburg and how he will develop. The one thing I do take from this is we haven't managed the contract in a way to get value from a promising youngster. We did extend various contracts and appeared to be getting on top of this,...lets hope we haven't let the one who ends up going for real money slip through the net.

He was wanting over £7 grand a week from what I was told plus a long term deal , he was offered £5 and a 2 year deal with a further option . Im not coming down hard on anyone , im expressing an opinion on a young guy who 18 months ago was playing for Raith rovers , who had several decent games , nothing more than that , and who as decided with his agent to move abroad as is his will . Whether he is better or worse than anybody is neither here nor there , because if he was even getting anywhere near the first team next year we are in trouble yet again . But this whailing and acting as if the sky has fallen in because hes left , jesus wept have we really fallen this low .

Daily Record 'inside track' on this suggests the club.......... "refused to bow to wage demands of around 7500 a week". "Rangers are in line to net only a five-figure compensation payment under FIFA guidelines but they point-blank refused to salary demands from Bates and his advisors they believed excessive. His package would have outstripped considerably the salary levels of other young Rangers and Ibrox chairman Dave King and his board decided to draw the line on a player who has made just 19 appearances for the club." -------------- No mention of what the club were prepared to offer but Forlansister mentioned 2K. The question being, what happened to any negotiation between 2K to 7,5K (no mention of bonus structure) and length of contract ? He was definately worth more than 2K and IMO his age/displays to date merited an offer of more than 2 years. 5K and 4 years would have sounded about right to me and the question now is how much will it cost to replace him ?

2 tims and a tim media puppet

No, but he has been far better than Alves & Martin this season making him our best CB. You seem to be coming down hard on any Rangers fan who thinks he is a decent player, you going on about him holding the club to ransom yet is probably the lowest paid CB in the team, including Cardoso, and outplaying the other two CB. You seem to think he is crap!. I asked you earlier in the thread if you know could you let us know the fine details of what wages he was on and what he wanted, can you tell us?

Only a few weeks ago across a few forums the general consensus was he wasnt good enough , now hes leaving hes Beckenbauer

McCrorie is a better player, I am not comparing Bates with McCrorie, I am comparing Bates with Alves & Martin, Bates has won a couple of MOTM awards and I still say his distribution is no worse than Alves or Martin, Bates has youth on his side to improve. I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about Bates leaving, I am only saying he is a young Scottish CB who could maybe have developed a good partnership with McCrorie and lasted for years.

Alves was brought in to much trumpeting as a great defender who would organise our defence and bring us much needed on the field leadership. He has not done so, hopefully his contact is up in the summer and we can get rid.

Bates might not be Beckenbauer, not yet anyway, but I prefer him to that imposter Alves and that washed up diddy Martin. Those saying we will get better in the Summer, I will not hold my breath.

He isn't good enough for us if we want to win the league, IMHO of course.

Good luck to him, but I think this is good for him and good for us. He isn't good enough to be in our first eleven. Unfortunately he was the best of a bad bunch this season but we wouldn't normally tolerate someone of that quality in our central defence and I fully expect we will recruit well into that position in this summer. If the rumours are true that he was looking for a longer contract, I don't blame him, but I'm so glad we didn't do it. He's got a lot to prove before we could afford to give him a contract longer than a couple of years.

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